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	<title>Comments on: False Endpoints</title>
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		<title>By: Inter-Sections &#187; Blog Archive &#187; False Endpoints and the Pareto Principle</title>
		<link>http://mssv.net/2008/03/04/false-endpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-70365</link>
		<dc:creator>Inter-Sections &#187; Blog Archive &#187; False Endpoints and the Pareto Principle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mssv.net/2008/03/04/false-endpoints/#comment-70365</guid>
		<description>[...] this article, Adrian Hon, picks up on the idea (originally from Gregory Bateson, I believe) that time pressure [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this article, Adrian Hon, picks up on the idea (originally from Gregory Bateson, I believe) that time pressure [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rowan</title>
		<link>http://mssv.net/2008/03/04/false-endpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-64324</link>
		<dc:creator>Rowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 23:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mssv.net/2008/03/04/false-endpoints/#comment-64324</guid>
		<description>Wow, what a post - have bookmarked that to read properly later.   Very interesting topic you&#039;ve brought out of it though...

Thinking a bit more about it, I&#039;m wondering if a &quot;false endpoint&quot; is actually just a compromise, or - less diplomatically - a bodge.  Many tasks in the real world - as opposed to play, &quot;real&quot; or otherwise - appear to be striving to meet loosely defined criteria with restrictions along several criteria.

I think the loosely defined, or organic, criteria is the key to this - for example, in the creative example you give of an advertising slogan for a chocolate bar, there is no true &quot;right&quot; answer.  The theoretical best answer is one that will increase sales to the maximum the economy will support - but does that mean that a critically acclaimed slogan which doesn&#039;t appear to increase sales or brand awareness very much is a &quot;false endpoint&quot;?  Or a slogan that triples sales - is that a &quot;false endpoint&quot;?

I think the point I&#039;m trying to make, clumsily, is that there&#039;s very few actual endpoints per se outside of play.  There&#039;s improvements, and iterations, and breakthroughs... so we end up setting goals for ourselves, targets, because it means we can actually call something done :)

Creative projects done as a hobby are a good example - in many senses they&#039;re more like the above definition of play than anything else - we do them for fun, and have fun so we keep noodling away the problem to arrive at something better than the first, good-enough solution.  But we still draw the line at *a* solution, just to be able to draw the line somewhere - even though we may well come back to it later!

I do think one of the big attraction about many games is that there&#039;s often clearcut metrics of success, which lend themselves to incremental increases in perceived performance - incrementing the false endpoints, as it were, which often appears to actually *enhance* the process of play.



That&#039;s quite enough disconnected rambling I think...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, what a post &#8211; have bookmarked that to read properly later.   Very interesting topic you&#8217;ve brought out of it though&#8230;</p>
<p>Thinking a bit more about it, I&#8217;m wondering if a &#8220;false endpoint&#8221; is actually just a compromise, or &#8211; less diplomatically &#8211; a bodge.  Many tasks in the real world &#8211; as opposed to play, &#8220;real&#8221; or otherwise &#8211; appear to be striving to meet loosely defined criteria with restrictions along several criteria.</p>
<p>I think the loosely defined, or organic, criteria is the key to this &#8211; for example, in the creative example you give of an advertising slogan for a chocolate bar, there is no true &#8220;right&#8221; answer.  The theoretical best answer is one that will increase sales to the maximum the economy will support &#8211; but does that mean that a critically acclaimed slogan which doesn&#8217;t appear to increase sales or brand awareness very much is a &#8220;false endpoint&#8221;?  Or a slogan that triples sales &#8211; is that a &#8220;false endpoint&#8221;?</p>
<p>I think the point I&#8217;m trying to make, clumsily, is that there&#8217;s very few actual endpoints per se outside of play.  There&#8217;s improvements, and iterations, and breakthroughs&#8230; so we end up setting goals for ourselves, targets, because it means we can actually call something done :)</p>
<p>Creative projects done as a hobby are a good example &#8211; in many senses they&#8217;re more like the above definition of play than anything else &#8211; we do them for fun, and have fun so we keep noodling away the problem to arrive at something better than the first, good-enough solution.  But we still draw the line at *a* solution, just to be able to draw the line somewhere &#8211; even though we may well come back to it later!</p>
<p>I do think one of the big attraction about many games is that there&#8217;s often clearcut metrics of success, which lend themselves to incremental increases in perceived performance &#8211; incrementing the false endpoints, as it were, which often appears to actually *enhance* the process of play.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s quite enough disconnected rambling I think&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Hon</title>
		<link>http://mssv.net/2008/03/04/false-endpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-64077</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Hon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mssv.net/2008/03/04/false-endpoints/#comment-64077</guid>
		<description>I think that&#039;s true as far as it applies to certain clients and certain projects (which I grant I focused on), but there are plenty of circumstances where no clients are involved, and there&#039;s all the time in the world, and yet we still settle for false endpoints - take any creative project done as a hobby as an example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s true as far as it applies to certain clients and certain projects (which I grant I focused on), but there are plenty of circumstances where no clients are involved, and there&#8217;s all the time in the world, and yet we still settle for false endpoints &#8211; take any creative project done as a hobby as an example.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Mear</title>
		<link>http://mssv.net/2008/03/04/false-endpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-64070</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mssv.net/2008/03/04/false-endpoints/#comment-64070</guid>
		<description>&#039;False endpoints&#039;, though, seem to be as much a consequence of &#039;client won&#039;t sign a blank cheque&#039; as of anything else. In an ideal world we&#039;d brainstorm until the perfect idea presented itself, but the reality is that people want a solution, and they want it yesterday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;False endpoints&#8217;, though, seem to be as much a consequence of &#8216;client won&#8217;t sign a blank cheque&#8217; as of anything else. In an ideal world we&#8217;d brainstorm until the perfect idea presented itself, but the reality is that people want a solution, and they want it yesterday.</p>
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